Thursday, December 19, 2013

On Devyani Khobragade and India's Reaction to this Incident

Over the last couple of days a scandal has occurred that is dividing India and America very quickly. There are multiple cultural issues involved and a lot of misinformation being shared and reported. For those of you who don't know, the US started a sting operation in which they were out to gather evidence on official employees who were breaking immigration and labor laws.

THIS IS NOT NEW. Let's look at some facts - this operation had been going on for 9 years, Ms. Khobragade's maid had only been here since 2012. So less than 2 years. Clearly, she wasn't targeted in an isolated incident hell bent on defaming Indian society. (*sarcasm) I have provided links below that both mention the arrest of dozens of Russian dipolomats for violating laws and essentially stealing money from the US government (obviously the most reprehensible crime ever....more sarcasm!). ---the money would have came to the government via the taxes paid, the money the maid would have spent purchasing in our economy, etc.

As with any major incident, when this first came out to the public, a lot of misinformation was spread about how this woman was arrested, when, etc. Not one single mention was made of the fact she was told about this ahead of time, the Indian representatives here were also alerted and nothing was done. She wasn't arrested on a whim by some random officer that day. This had been brewing for weeks, possibly months. No one attacked some poor wealthy Indian woman and brutalized her publicly. There is plenty of official information that has been released about what really happened, the links are below.

My problem with this whole mess is how India has chosen to react. It's classic heirarchy and denial. Instead of trying to learn the facts, they've decided to over-react in some unethical and inappropriate ways including demanding that all charges be dropped against Khobragade and threatening the maid's family. They've placed all the blame on the poor victim.

Accusations that the maid made false statements against Khobragade are absurd! Yet, India has decided to lodge a case against the maid for it. The reality is that the US government has the falsified documents filed by Khobragade in which she lied about how much she paid the maid and stated the maid was related to her. Immigration routinely verifies family connections so that was stupid to lie about on Khobragades' part in the first place. How did the US get these documents? It's simple, Khobragade gave them to immigration when she filed to bring this maid to the US. So the maid didn't falsely accuse her, she completed these actions of her own free will.

There are reports, which I have not verified so I will not guarantee them 100%, that the maids family was being threatened in India and the US brought them here to the US for their own safety. While I haven't verified them, unfortunately this sounds too much like the kinds of things you hear coming out of the Indian media outlets regularly. Victims families being coerced not to file reports. And even if it's not the police, who's to say that the neighbors aren't intimidating or threatening this maids family because they either fear for them or want to impose their own emotions/agenda on them?

A poor reaction to an already sensitive situation does not foster a healthy remedy.

Now India is threatening the US. It's an open threat, or maybe you may feel like it's only a threatening tone, regardless, they're demanding this woman be set free completely and all charges be dropped to "defuse the row" between countries. The article detailing this is the first on the list below. It's absurd. They make claims about her being treated like a "common criminal." The reality is that in the US, there's no caste system so she is indeed COMMON. She's not worth anymore as a person than the maid and IMO that is what bothers India the most.

India is simply retaliation and lashing out in an over-dramatic fashion. 

I would love to hear/read your thoughts and opinions. While I don't mind if you discuss US criminal justice policies, please keep in mind that is not the focus of this post. That would require a few posts of it's own. I will state my opinion though, I feel like if we have full body scanners in airports that we know can see everything inside and out, then why the hell are we still doing manual strip searches?


India says U.S.must drop case against diplomat to defuse row



Russia:
Meet Preet Barara, who ordered Devyani Khobragade's arrest

American Media on this Incident:
 

103 comments:

  1. Haha, you're so ignorant......'no caste system in the US'...you twats always bring up caste, but do you even know that the diplomat is a dalit, or from an untouchable caste? Guess you wouldn't, in all your self righteousness. What India is doing is only what a self respecting country would do.....I mean USA bent over backwards for an American non-diplomatic staff, WITHOUT any dip. immunity, who shot dead two people in Lahore, Pakistan in broad daylight. Read about Raymond Davis case.....Charges were forced to be dropped and he was allowed to leave Pakistan scott free and not even tried in your own country. And you go all broughaha on the 'retaliations' in India. Americans only understand tough language....you guys are so used to having your ass licked in every country that once that's stopped, the other country becomes an adversary. India removes two/three stone barricades outside and stops liquor licenses, extra privileges that were accorded w/o any such reciprocity in the states and all your media channels go nuts today....Two days ago, none of this was not even in the media. How many barricades are outside the Indian embassy? The maid was being paid pretty well by Indian standards, 30,000Rs...she was staying at home and had a separate entrance to her room, not paying for lodging/electricity/phone SIM/travel/food.....The minimum wage makes sense if she's working and has to manage all the other expenses which she obviously didn't.

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  2. i love my india .i love my india :-)

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  3. Here's a prime example of another Indian over-reacting. Your attacks on me personally were neither warranted nor appreciated.

    I don't care if she's a dalit or not. As I said, there's no caste in the US and she's just another person and that's it. You completely read that whole line wrong.

    It's interesting you think retaliation is respectable yet try and rebuke the US for it's actions. Fascinating double standard there. For the record, I never said the US government was without fault. Your dismissal of the severity of what has been going on in India just shows the typical Indian denial outsiders see. Yes, an Indian woman was arrested in a manner that differs from how the Indian government would do it. That does not justify potentially endangering the lives of multiple people (in the embassy) including women and children who are not government workers, nor does it justify the implied threats being made. Wake up and smell the stench under your nose, India is just like every other nation out there. They have their corrupt politicians lying, cheating and stealing. India pulls some pretty aggressive maneuvers of their own. To act like any of it is respectable or good in any way is blatant denial. You would do much better for your country by rebuking any behavior like this just as I do routinely about America and India as countries I identify with. When I see shit, I call it shit because that's what it is and no amount of air freshener will change that fact.

    As for your sentiment that this maid makes good money in Rupees - she doesn't live in India, she lives in the most expensive city in the US. She gets paid $6500 a year and no amount of free room and board, etc. would make her salary increase to the amount it would cost her to pay for the things she's not receiving for free. Also, $3 is not the minimum wage, $9.75 is for that locality. She was not paid minimum wage by anyones standards. The lowest minimum wage in the US is $7.25. She wasn't even paid half of that! If the only things she ever needed to purchase were clothes and toiletries or other small daily need items, she would not be able to purchase them on the salary she received. So I'm glad you think that she deserved minimum wage at the very least. It's just a shame the diplomat didn't pay her the minimum wage.

    Plain and simple, the maid was mistreated and the diplomat KNEW better before she started mistreating her. This diplomat knew the laws and chose to break them. She does not deserve any special treatment even though she got it. If she cannot respect the laws of the country she's living and working in, she should not be in such a high position.

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  4. There are reports that the maid stole from the house before leaving. And US authorities refused to lodge any complaints against her. A case is impending in india against her family members which US authorities siphoned off to US. This is a serious concern, it actually is like interfering in the law and order of another country. And matches the american snobbishness of our laws are better than yours.

    If the case is not dropped, i guess there are serious chances that a few american diplomats might get their cavities checked and get a taste of jail system in India, which will be par for the course.


    Regarding the mistreatment of the maid.. oh well.. shes a gold digger nothing else.. if she thought the terms of her employment so problematic, then why did she accept them in the first place. Why wait till she got to US and found it easier to blackmail her employer. I guess, US is with its lawsuits a much better place for such gold diggers.


    Its about time, Indian govt. found its spine and i hope they keep the heat on. Removing barricades is the first step. Checking their bank accounts and their other 'activties' is being done. I am sure by end of next month we will get one or two behind bars and THEN Indian govt can negotiate.. :)

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  5. "Endangering Lives'....LOL....Two barricades removed that were for reserved parking and all your CNN to ABC decide that the embassy's being attacked. Just FYI, India is just treating the US like any other country from now on....If you've been to the AMerican embassy you'd realise how tough is it to go even close to that place.....Compare that to any other embassy and you'd know. The Americans are treated in India like Viceroys and KIngs....Guess what you guys don't deserve it especially with your high school bulliy attitude and disrespect for other cultures.

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  6. i don't know what the fact is but since you say that Indian officials were informed then why are they reacting this way? secondly why would they do this and try to spoil hard build relations. You are making Indian officials sound very Dumb.

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  7. your whole post can be explained only in two words "American Exceptionalism". as a fact, it has been revealed that the American govt planned the whole string of incidents to trap Devyani and thus humiliate India. in this whole plot the maid was used as a bait. she was strip searched for suspicion of finding any drugs??


    it is clearly evident that the whole incident took place with America's intention of humiliating India. we should retaliate by stripping your female diplomats nude and making a hot body search, much to the pleasure of our male police officers. Its time you rednecks learn your lesson the hard way...period


    by the way, why did America over react when the planes crashed on the two towers? whats the big deal in that?

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  8. 'Clearly, she wasn't targeted in an isolated incident hell bent on defaming Indian society. (*sarcasm)'

    Interesting 'clash of cultures', eh?
    I get 3 news channels from Delhi & they insist on billing Dr Khobragade's arrest as an insult to India's 'National Pride'.

    The Indian news reports are horrendously bad - first it was reported that Dr Khobragade was arrested by 'police' in front of her children & subjected to cavity searches & whatnot.

    Now it comes out she was arrested by US Marshals with a warrant out of view of her children, allowed to keep her cellphone, & not cuffed at all?

    Indians don't seem to understand that US District Attorney Bharara had to obtain a WARRANT for Dr Khobragade's arrest by going before a JUDGE and presenting DEFINITIVE evidence that the accused committed a crime.

    (Looking at US District Attorney Bharara's stellar conviction rate shows he only goes after cases he knows he can win with SOLID evidence - he does not fool around & was quite aware of her lack of diplomatic immunity.)

    A typical arrest warrant in the United States will take the approximate form of:
    "This Court orders the US Marshal (or sheriff or constable) to find the named person, wherever he/she may be found, and deliver said person to the custody of the Court."



    We really haven't been told exactly what all the charges listed on the WARRANT are - US District Attorney Bharara has hinted at other problematic 'behaviors' that Dr Khobragade has engaged in besides 'visa fraud' & the maid's attorney Dana Sussman made a remark suggesting 'human trafficking' may be one of the charges.



    The Indian media doesn't seem to recognize that a US District Attorney can't just send the police/sheriff/constable/US Marshal/whomever to arrest someone on a whim.


    I agree with you API on the manual strip searches - scanners would pick up so much more ANY manual strip search ever would.
    As far as the Raymond Davis case goes - it has been revealed that Mr Davis was head of the CIA in Pakistan at the time & the 2 men he shot were armed ISI agents assigned to 'follow' him (not exactly 'ordinary' Pakistani citizens).
    Mr Davis was released & acquitted by Pakistani judges after $2.4 million in diyya (blood money allowed under Islamic law) was paid - hardly 'scott free'.

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  9. I think it is gratuitious to keep repeating that "there's no caste in the US". While technically true, that kind of statement usually comes from someone born with white privilege. It is like that comment about black people by the Duck Dynasty guy. You wouldn't be shouting from the hilltop about equality in the US had you been born black, that much is for sure.

    It is duplicitous to shed crocodile tears about the "exploited" maid when such exploitation is par for the course when it comes to the way illegals are treated in every walk of life in the US. How much do you think that bus-boy in the diner makes? What about the guy who barely speaks English and cuts our lawn in the summer? What about people in high places (like Congress people etc) that have been found to have underpaid illegals that they employed - haven't heard of cavity searches applicable to them, ever.

    The case is not about whether she is guilty of exploiting her maid or not. That may well be the case and courts will determine that (though I am surprised that while you took all evidence against the diplomat in consideration, you didn't mention a word about what her lawyer said in her defence. I guess that's what passes off as even-handedness these days). The case is about how a sovereign nation treats another one's official representative. Yeah, I know that no one is above the law and that kind of boilerplate language except that there is that irritating concept called reciprocity that could prove a tad troublesome when applied to the American consular staff in India. But I am sure they are pure as snow and have never done anything reproachable (god forbid!).

    This could go either way. The maid may not be as innocent as she is being portrayed as (or she may be, I just don't know). Just because she is poor doesn't mean that that automatically makes her a paragon of honesty.

    Keep an open mind.

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  10. I have been reading all sides of the story, and been quite intrigued with how both countries did what they did.
    Yes, plain and simple , the diplomat broke US law , and her arrest was possibly warranted (I say possibly, since I'm not aware of what procedures US would follow if their diplomats are caught breaking the law in other countries).

    My question is what right does US have to bring the maid's family (who are Indian citizens) here ? The maid and the diplomat - the two parties concerned with the issue were in US, no ?

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  11. I agree, it is a very interesting culture clash. I've been trying to follow both sides of the issue specifically to see how India and the US reports differ. There's a lot more going on that meets the eye and I think that this whole case just reeks of cover up, though how much and on which side I'm not sure - I'm leaning toward both sides being screwy.

    I did notice Bharara's credentials and track record. Regardless of all of that, I am dead sure that no arrest of any diplomat would have been made without substantially damning evidence. There's just too much politics involved for them to be hasty in any matter like this. One of the news reports from India indicated that this whole matter began back on June 23, which means someone probably knew something long before then and thus this one arrest was months in planning.

    I wouldn't really compare this to the Raymond Davis case though I get why some people are quick to throw that case up as a flag against the US. This case was Indian on Indian crime, involves immigration fraud (which we know is a major focus these days), and much much more than the Davis case did. If racism is a motivating factor in this case, it did not start with US vs. India.

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  12. I do not agree that anti-caste statements only come from privileged white people. I don't deny the existence of white privilege nor deny that it's more prevalent in some circles. However, it does not dominate the whole world the way many activists proclaim it does. White privilege is a construct of the US elite and does not apply to the lower middle class or poor classes in the US nor most other predominantly white nations. It's ignorance for the people preaching this to project it onto people who had nothing to do with the slavery, etc. that these activists have determined is a major factor in the privilege of today. But that subject in itself would require many posts and I have no interest in discussing the subject.

    On that note, you have no idea how I was raised and I would appreciate if you wouldn't try to diagnose my thinking via blog post comment. It's unethical. I was not raised in a typical white family nor was it all white in any regard. I was raised predominantly by my grandmother who was half French, half Spanish. She adopted all 3 of her children, only one was white American and it wasn't my father. His biological parents (he wasn't a baby at adoption) were German and Gypsy. I could go on and on but the short of this is that I was raised amongst 12 different cultures and I lived in a joint family or communal type environment most of my life. So it baffles me why people scream about opression of black people when there are clearly 196 nationalities represented in the US today. It's racist to single out any one group and that's exactly what is being done by far too many people.

    Unlike the Duck Dynasty incident, my comment was not racist or anti-ethnic. It was a statement of the fact that we do not honor a caste based system. Does that mean we don't have idiots that worship the social elite? No. But that's not nearly the same as what caste systems represent.

    I agree with you 100% about how screwed up people exploit illegal workers in the US. I've never covered for the US and their transgressions and I won't. I will/do stand up just as quickly and rebuke ridiculous behavior in the US just like I am doing to India with this post. I have routinely rebuked US media for lying, dramatizing and blatantly misreporting facts just like I do with everyone else. If you really want to know my opinion about us government officials - I think that most of them need to be kicked out and we need to hire non-money grubbing people who won't exploit all of America for their own personal sadistic desires. I don't like 90% of our government and I have no problem stating that I think we need a massive government overhaul in this country and I'm sick of how things are going over here right now. I could go on and on but I think that's sufficient for now.

    Lawyers lie. So no, I haven't listened to lawyers on either side. A lawyers job is to soften the blow to their client as much as possible or get them freed of the charges if they can find a way. What I heard from her lawyer is what he didn't say. He never said she didn't do it.

    If you'd read my blog back when I was dealing with immigration, you would know I have a sour taste with them as well. So no, I don't think they're innocent. I know quite a bit more about embassy's from the inside as well having had access to government documents in preparation to live in an embassy previously in my life as well. I smelled a lot of bullshit with that as well. I would never call them white as snow. There's jerks in every corner of the world.

    I'm not sure the maid is totally innocent. Something is very fishy with the whole case and I too am waiting to find out what that turns out to be.

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  13. I think that's fishy too! It made no sense to bring her family over here. I think there's a lot more to the immigration scam than we have been told thus far. There are many angles this case could take and I'm watching it to see where it goes. I know they said that her family was basically being threatened but why would they be on such easily dismissed or small charges? If the Indian government knew they could get the diplomat immunity as we've seen occur so many times throughout the world with every nation, why would it ever be necessary to file cases against or threaten her family? It doesn't make sense to me either. Something is definitely fishy with that part of this case.

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  14. I appreciate you being more respectful with this reply. We can disagree and still be civil. :)

    I've been to the Dehli embassy many times and been mistreated there myself. They're not on my list of friendly places to visit at all. However, those barricades were clearly placed for safety, thus removing them is a blatant sign of disrespect for human safety plain and simple. It's a childish move in retaliation for something that could have been handled much better IMO.

    You may not have suspected it but I actually agree with your opinion that the US has a high school bully attitude. What you may not know is that many American citizens oppose this attitude and the government is no longer listening to us. They simply no longer care about their own people, much less those of other nations. Though I would say if there's money, power or some other commodity involved, the US government will be sweet as sugar to that country. The approval rating of the US government is a hot topic these days with it being at an all-time low. More then 60% of Americans are sick of this crap as well. There's a political war going on with the heads of many nations right now and the US seems to be trying to dominate in ways many would never even notice.

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  15. IMO - and it's only opinion - I think that this incident is much more than meets the eye. Regardless of who the victim and perpetrator or, I think that someone may have tried to use this case as a bargaining chip and they couldn't come to any kind of agreement and thus things got ugly. I think we're going to learn a few details and then this case is going to disappear and they're going to try to make it go away.

    Indian officials aren't dumb. I didn't mean to make them sound this way. That being said I do tend to think about things from a very trained standpoint and that can be hard to remember since I'm not addressing other trained individuals. When I read these reports I spot things like what's not being talked about. I notice missing information. I also notice details that aren't popular. So when I looked at this case and found out it was more than 6 months old that is a huge red flag. I have my own conspiracy theory going on but until more information comes out, I won't know how close to right I was.

    My biggest concern right now is how this is being played out and fear and hatred are being born by the media. Look at the riots going on against people who had nothing to do with this. The embassy employees in Delhi probably had no idea what was going on. In comments on this blog people have eluded to Americans being arrested and strip-searched. It's that kind of mentality I think is an over-reaction and it doesn't solve anything. It's sadistic. As individuals we have no right to punish others based on our own emotions/assumptions. Hindu culture would teach this as well as Christian culture - the two dominant religions in the respective nations. So why then are so many people wanting blood sacrifices for atonement (metaphorically)? It's that kind of attitude that I feel is completely wrong.

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  16. I assume you're trusting Indian media? In any sting operation by any government there will be plans. No one sit back in their office one day and said 'oh my god, India is becoming too great, let's find an innocent Indian woman to pin horrendous charges on so we can shame them in front of the whole world.' It would be absurd to think so. India was not targeted for fun and games.

    Your retaliatory ideal to strip-search Americans for pleasure is sadistic and unwarranted. The Indian diplomat violated laws knowingly and has not denied that. Stip searching, though I don't agree with it, is standard procedure. This woman wasn't locked in a room full of perverted men and fondled for humiliation. She was searched by trained female officers.

    Not every American is a redneck and you can't honestly compare the twin towers with human trafficking. I do think there was and still is a significant amount of over-reaction to the 9/11 incident. That was an international incident involving many countries. This is an Indian on Indian crime that happened on American soil and violated US law. I don't ever agree with any kind of aggressive over-reacting.

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  17. If paying the maid would exceed her own salary then perhaps she should not have requested so much work from the maid. I'm sure it sucks but the majority of Americans cook and clean for themselves and struggle to pay for daycare. We're not all sitting here rich and fabulous like some people think we are. I for one have never had any type of servants in the US. I've had to do my own dry cleaning, wash clothes by hand, wash my own dishes, cook my own food, clean up my own house, wash my own clothes, iron them, etc. I had to do it all every day. Embassy employees don't work any more hours than the common American and thus would have the same amount of free time to do their own housework as well. If she can't afford to pay the maid legal wages she simply should not have gotten one. I'm guessing she knew that though as she forged immigration documents to import a maid she knew she could pay less money for.

    I absolutely agree with your point #3. Many innocent, well-meaning immigrants get denied visa's and yet the fraudulent ones seem to have no trouble getting approved. It makes me mad! I also agree with you 100% the maid is guilty of immigration fraud as well. She was part of the scam. I doubt she will be punished though as we have a system in this country where if she testifies against the diplomat she could go free. I do believe though that she has much more information than just about the immigration scam or this maid would not be worth so much to the US.

    To answer one of your questions, yes, the Russian diplomats were treated the same. Procedures are procedures and this one Indian woman was not the only one arrested recently. Dozens of Russians were too and our relations with Russia are known to be tense for decades now! Just recently Russia even threatened the US over Syria. This was not an isolated incident.

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  18. "My question is what right does US have to bring the maid's family (who are Indian citizens) here ?'
    This morning it is all over the Delhi news channels that the US will not give Dr Khobragade 'diplomatic immunity', Dr Khobragade will have to stand trial in the US, & the charges include 'human trafficking'.
    Woe to Dr Khobragade if the charges do indeed include 'human trafficking' for that is the current 'cause celebre' in the US.
    I think the maid's family were probably issued visas to the US on the basis of some sort of 'asylum' to avoid persecution in India & in order for the maid to give testimony & witness in the trial of Dr Khobragade.
    This is a guess on my part based on what the maid's attorney Dana Sussman (of the 'Safe Horizons' anti- trafficking program) has said. The maid & her family are apparently staying in shelter provided by 'Safe Horizons' as well as receiving assistance from them.
    It is interesting that the maid (Mrs Richards) is being touted as a 'traitor' by a lot of Indians for filing a case against a fellow Indian in the US.
    It would seem the belief of many Indians is 'If I pay someone a salary (however paltry) I own them & their absolute loyalty".

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  19. "Planned the whole string of incidents to humiliate India"-really? If we wanted to humiliate India, there are far better ways to do it. Fact: she was warned that she was under investigation, and did nothing. Even Indian officials admitted that they knew of the investigation but they "believed the US government would never do anything." Why did they believe that? maybe because Indians have gotten away with a whole lot of other visa fraud cases.
    "it is time you rednecks learn your lesson". Resorting to ad hominem attacks are we? Oh, how the Indian male ego is such a dangerous force to be reckoned with! I get it: Indians are frustrated. Your population is soaring, you're running out of water, malnutrition is rampant, there is a huge frustrated youth bulge and far too many men, the economy is stagnating and 2014 is an election year, so what better way to unite Indians than a diversion from the real issues in your country and to blame everything on an outside "evil" country. Funny how the country you want to blame is such a desirable destination for Indians. Men who get visas to the US can demand huge dowries from prospective brides-how do you explain that?
    Bringing up 9-11 and the WTC (the 'two towers is not the correct name) is relevant to this discussion, but since you bring it up....yes, we over-reacted by attacking the wrong country. It should have been Saudi Arabia and Pakistan since there is now incontrovertible evidence that the governments of those countries were directly involved, which would mean....the 9-11 attacks were an act of war.
    As for "strip-searching female US diplomats"....nothing new on the part of Indians, since you are country that believes in 'evaluating' women on their sexual history through the "two fingers test."
    Again, back to the matter at hand: visa fraud. Indians are notorious for this. Not just in the US, but also in Australia, UK, Canada, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and even tiny Timor-Leste to name a few. India is also one of the world leaders now in human trafficking and slavery. Just look around Haryana a bit, It's right there, out in the open.
    Get your house in order before you starting hurling accusations and insults. It's India who should apologize to the US, not the other way around, for yet again violating our visa laws. And remember, you still need us a whole lot more than we need you.

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  20. I think you missed the point as usual. US has no jurisdiction on Indian soil. The case against the maid is pending in India, She is an indian national.
    It was an internal matter, US had no right to get that family out of here. Thats going to cause a lot of problems in future.

    I am not sure where in my post you saw that indians are superior to americans, because I sure as hell didnt write it. Maybe your hatred against all things indian made you see it.

    This maid was gold digger for sure, she tried to blackmail the diplomat asking for $20000 and new visa for dropping the charges. Shes no victim here.

    Its funny how you see human rights violation against the maid who got paid the full salary + perks which she knew beforehand. she signed on that contract before leaving india, so rest assured she had full knowledge of what she was getting into. But you turn your blind eye towards the strip/cavity search of another woman who is not yet proven guilty of anything.. who is a career diplomat not a regular thief. But yeah i guess some ppl are so used to double standards and high moral grounds that they dont even notice it.



    Its sickening to see how easily a reputation can be tarnished by simple charges of a blackmailer, just because it suits the stereotypes.



    And you talking about retaliation is hilarious when US wiped off two countries coz two of their buildings collapsed coz of some lunatic terrorists.


    Retaliation is the only language US govt. understands, you will see it as soon as we get 2 of their diplomats behind bars, the negotiations will start :)

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  21. I doubt that. Most of you are trying to get out, and your social policies and cultural attitudes generally show that you dislike each other. I know. I've worked in an Indian company in India.

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  22. APPI, I know people in the US foreign service. Among foreign service officers, there's a little joke that INDIA stands for I'll Never Do It Again, because anyone who has had to do a diplomatic tour there has gone through hell-working with Indians, dealing with the Indian government and most of all, having to take on all the pushy Indians applying for US visas, which require extra strenuous checks because at least half the applications are fraudulent.
    PS-meant to say in my other post that mentioning 9-11 is "irrelevant" not "relevant"

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  23. LOL! I love the INDIA joke. I hadn't heard that one before as a joke but I've heard Indians say that plenty. I remember sitting in the Delhi embassy a few times and watching Indians trying to get visa's. I also know all too well how easy it is to falsify documents in India and how big the market is for it over there. There's way too many visa scams promising to take people abroad and they fake all kinds of documents. We have one friend who got caught up in a coyote type scam and wound up on a farm in Russia before being deported back after he almost died in transit trying to get to America. It's crazy how hard some people work to try to get out of India.

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  24. The US government has a right to give a visa, or deny a visa, to anyone they want. Yes, APPI, it does seem that there may be more to the story. Please note also that the maid-Sangeeta Richard, is a Christian, and quite possibly her family in India received threats of physical harm and intimidation that could be motivated by both this incident and religious bigotry.

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  25. Sadly, we Americans are still far too naive and trusting when it comes to our borders and sovereignty. The one good thing about the US economic problems now is that maybe people will wake up and start demanding better immigration policies and controls. Re your friend caught in Russia: ha! that's quite a detour to get to the US.

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  26. u worked in indian company ,that makes u what !!! to judge freaking 1.237 billion people country,i mean seriously idk which company u work but u defiantly dont know anything abt india and Indian culture ,do more research and travel and open ur eyes ,and then talk abt cultural attitudes ,yes we have culture and everyone proud of it,which u Americans do not have !Evan people from west appreciates Indian values and culture ,and btw lynchburg sucks ,:-(

    oh i love my india ,i love my india ,vatan mera india dharam mera india

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  27. Mary : tell me
    how come Sangeeta Richard Family work for US counselor in New delhi ,don't u think it seems so fishy ,we all knew Americans r famous for
    there conspiracies and secretes agenda , Sangeeta Richards’s husband,
    Philip, and two children quietly
    flew to America by an Air India flight. Somebody in Washington had
    helped them procure visas, a highly unusual development, since the
    Indian Government had revoked Sangeeta Richards’s official passport in
    July and asked for her to be deported to India. Usually such a dramatic
    evacuation is done only to protect US spies; hence it is important to
    investigate the Richard family, its associations, and bank accounts.
    The
    Richard family seems well networked with the diplomatic community.
    Sangeeta’s father-in-law reportedly works in the American embassy in
    Delhi; her mother-in-law is said to have worked for a senior US
    diplomat; her husband, Philip, was a driver with the Mozambique embassy.
    Philip was granted a T-visa, which allows victims of human trafficking
    and immediate family members to remain and work temporarily in the
    United States if they agree to assist law enforcement in testifying
    against the perpetrators. This suggests a larger conspiracy

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  28. I didn't miss your point. This incident didn't occur on Indian soil. The diplomat tried to wage a court case against the maid back in India, but the incident occurred here and papers filed inside the US embassy are considered on US soil as well. If all of the diplomats transgressions had occurred on Indian embassy property here in the US, we would not be arguing about this over my blog.

    As for it being an internal matter, I've stated it and so have many news reports. India was well aware of this situation and chose not to remove Devyani from the US months ago as is customary in these situations. India chose not to react at all and they let this escalate here. So they relinquished their right to handle the matter.

    I don't hate all things Indian but I abhore the fact that the majority of Indians thrive on attacking people personally and the typical Indian denial of its own faults. You continually show that with your comments here.

    Strip searches are not a human rights violation, they're a standard in the law here. Regardless of my personal feelings -which I have stated I am against them - this diplomat was not violated nor treated any differently than anyone else would have been. You and I are going to have to disagree on the maid, that's clear. I do not feel like her signing any contract gives someone the right to treat her like a worthless slave. I doubt the maid knew she couldn't survive off of that low of a wage here and probably thought she would be making good money. When she wanted to get a second job, that indicated she wasn't making enough.

    Again, another sadistic threat aimed at targeting people for retaliation. This is exactly the kind of problem I was trying to discuss in the post. No one has done anything to you personally yet somehow you think it's a good idea to start punishing people. You've made yourself judge, jury and prosecutor for a case you have very limited information about. You've already decided to hang the maid and lynch the Americans before there was ever a trial and before all the evidence was released. This is the mentality I think is ridiculous among your countrymen.

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  29. I lived in India for almost 4 years, I worked with and for Indians (2 different companies actually) and one US, I am married to an Indian from Rajasthan, and we have 2 children. I most certainly have traveled more than you and have lived in 3 Asian countries, about to move to another one, and one European country in addition to small town and big city US. I most certainly am in a position to speak about this topic, and while I don't doubt your ideological love for your country, I sincerely doubt "you practice what you preach" with your fellow citizens.

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  30. Who cares if she's a spy and what she or her family did or did not do in Delhi. Indians see conspiracies everywhere. This is due to a lack of developed critical thinking skills. I'll say it again: the issue at hand is visa fraud (violating labor laws) in the US. Preet Bahara, US District Attorney, has nothing to do with the State Department. If Sangeeta Richard is a spy and they wanted to protect her, they would have taken her out of India a long time ago and there certainly would not have been some kind of charade of her being a maid and then making a case for visa fraud.
    Yes, the US spies and so does India and so do all countries. It was ever thus and it will ever be so. So what? It has nothing to do with this case. The US justice system is already over-loaded. Do you think Preet Bahara has nothing better to do with his time? If Dominique Strauss Khan can be arrested, so can a low-level unimportant Indian diplomat,

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  31. another desi cple ,jesus u American woman's gonna take over all the macho and handsome Indian men one day haha ,rajsthan is great place ,pink city jaipur nice ,morel of the story india rocks
    i love my india i love my india

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  32. oh emotions, visa frauds blahblah. is she running a racket of illegal aliens? maid's passport is official passport not common one and issued by indian gov. and employed by indian official.

    suppose if she had lied and its case of visa fraud than why attorney is crying foul of poor, weak, exploited and register case under human trafficking and getting maids family out of indian on t visa undermining sovereign of indian state.
    oh also isn't american premises in india are american territory to pay locals us wages. isn't uncle sam supposed to carry torch of moral standards everywhere.don't preach what you can't practice, and if all the Mexicans and Latino maids and workers are getting minimum wages and treated fairly in america.

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  33. Seriously, IF the US wanted to openly humiliate India & Dr Khobragade they could have easily made Dr Khobragade do the 'Perp Walk' - where the accused perpetrator is handcuffed and forced to walk before TV cameras (like Dominque Strauss-Kahn, the French national & Managing Director for the International Monetary Fund when he was accused of rape).

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  34. its not our job to decide that she should've or should not have used the maid in first place becoz they have lot of work to do and plus all the entertaining the guest stuff clearly far more than common americans do. she didn't requested much work from maid she was there for taking care of children. and 100 more countries do same in usa and state department knew this from beginning. you don't do all kind of cavity searches in a civil case she isn't drug peddler or murderer either.some american officials and media is spreading lies that cavity search wasn't done and hiding behind the bureaucratic line of "standard procedure". let me tell you there are four degree of us marshal search procedure and cavity search is in last and fourth one used for drug peddlers and high risk people. in this case at best frisking was enough.

    this seems to me is clearly a conspiracy or scam because incidentally maid's father happens to work for usa embassy in delhi. democrats had human trafficking in their manifesto and obama established a human trafficking cell in his office but despite the lot of budget and time they don't have any result to show for it there are too many coincidences in this case. may be they are seeking any case desperately and messed up very badly.

    they can't detain Russians and do all kind of searches because they have immunity and russians will beat the hell out american official there.

    Americans should not take any country for granted, french failed to protect strauss kahn although case was rejected in the end.
    in the diplomatic circles every action is reciprocal toe for toe so its time start acting modestly.

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  35. oh christen card how nice of you.
    like they protect every christian in the world moral crusader.
    who is america a global supercop ?

    when did christens threatened in india its height of hypocrisy.

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  36. I think one aspect that highlight the 'clash of cultures' (US vs India) is how lying is so differently viewed in both cultures.

    In Indian culture lying is not a big deal, whether it be in business, government or personal matters - in fact it is considered a part of doing business in India & tacitly condoned.

    Whereas in US culture lying is a big deal - you might get away with 'little white lies' in family/personal matters but if you lie in business matters or dare to lie to the gov't in the US there are serious consequences.
    Visa fraud is a federal FELONY punishable by up to 10 years in prison.
    Visa fraud is the fraudulent obtaining, use, or manufacture of a visa.
    You lie in writing on a Visa application to the US & you better 'lawyer up'- the US gov't takes lying on official forms very seriously.

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  37. its not about traitor or loyalist its about national image where gov. is failing to do its duty in highly suspicious case.
    she will can't be prosecuted becoz she will get full immunity.
    its mutually beneficial case for all of them maid and her family gets green card, ngo gets funding and law suit money, barara gets profile,cv and image boost in public and in last not the least human trafficking cell finally gets a case.

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  38. but Hey honestly who cares, we have people to people contact and open media, and that matters and i Think even you should chill out, don't take this to your heart. Things Happen, Yeah it could have been handled better.
    I also think ruling Indian govt has reacted this way for political reasons to show it is not soft. But whatever.

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  39. again you are presenting wrong facts she was arrested by the bureau of diplomatic security (ds) which is a kind of police and handed over to us marshal thereafter. us marshal don't arrest anyone for your kind info. and she was arrested and handcuffed in public infront of school not daughters. your tabloid attorney should understand that mobile phones and coffee etc. are not favors out of big heart. if they don't do it ,will get fired.
    getting davis out of pak was national issue for obama when he was crying out about immunity, so does it for india they are not doing anything out of ordinary.
    there can't be double standards and rules for the you and us.

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  40. case was complaints was lodge to nypd on crime happened in usa soil of theft, blackmailing,disappearances.
    no indians don't think any countries law is superior to other but action of american authorities and their statements are suggesting otherwise and exactly that.
    there is no victim blaming here there are clear evidences of maid's act in this case.

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  41. why would india withdrew one of its brightest person for some joes blackmailing.why couldn't us declare her PNG.majority of american also thrives on double standards, hypocrisy,exceptional-ism and moral crusading supercop if don't believe me go ask any person in europe about image of america.
    again you don't know your own law as i mentioned above in my other post us marshal have 4 category of searches and in this you don't arrest someone in prima facie and treat them like shit.
    again you are on moral high horse assuming without evidence that she is treated like slave which her letters and diary clearly contradicts. you believe that something called blaickmail for greed of green card and vast sums of money doesn't exist. its always poor victim, you know how americans get emotional over pictures of poverty.
    its very hard to battle a particular psyche ingrained in americans.

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  42. oh dear mary indians don't see conspiracy in everything like americans do.

    and all the dirty tricks and conspiracies belongs to operation dep. of cia and whole world know this, they don't even spared their allies uk and aus labour party.

    and critical thinking you know when your ancestors were living in caves and eating raw meat, we had critical thinking then developing mathematics and medical science.

    have you ever heard any of indian spy in usa but we heard cia spies caught in india.

    don't know what tabloid attorneys do with their time.

    ya she is low level unimportant indian diplomat like davis was.

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  43. you know we don't tow american line in everything like french do, expect full reciprocal action with american in chains of colonial era jails.

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  44. so traveling to other asian countries makes you expert on india more than indians lol nice theory.
    i am from raj. too and we are people of principle don't know from which part of raj. your husband belongs.
    we love our country like everyone do and
    don't certainly indulge in double standard, hypocrisy, lies, exceptionlism with two set of rules for practice and preaching throughout the world on moral high-horse of captain america.

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  45. life of workers were endangered, mistreated, exploited and threat being made how so, could you explain, all people arguing for america are very short on facts they are continuously arguing about rights, law, and standard procedure but not providing facts and seems to decide who is guilty and favoring the one side contrary to evidences.
    what wrong maneuvers indian gov done by raising voice against injustice to one of its employees?.
    about wages your argument lacks complete common sense what is earning is net savings any other things needed are completely provided to her including beauty treatment as i mentioned above in post.
    its just shame that diplomat is facing prosecution despite of providing so much to maid.
    she didn't get any special treatment and treated like drug peddler and murder and she full deserved to be in such high position.

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  46. can you provide any source of indian gov. official say usa don't do anything and they knew whole case.they did nothing because they were not at fault.

    and oh the irrelevant issues in the post about india so you come to your real nature we are so bad ok accepted.

    your economy is crumbled lot of unemployment, jails filled with blacks and criminals, violent society lot of intolerance and violence everywhere,higest rape rate per 100,000 of population, funny gun laws, indulged in human right violation worldwide,cia indulged in drug trades coups, illegal activities worldwide etc.

    we can give many more ex. but throwing dirt at other is not intention and point of whole issue and discussion.

    and i don't even want to mentioned the bedsheet test of virginity mentioned in bible what kind of dubious and unscientific religion and book this is you follow. but its not point of my argument i can go on on about slavery, colonialism etc. so don't attack on unnecessary and unrelated issues, learn something from your rajasthani husband about rajasthani values and heritage of how to live and die for principle and truth.

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  47. don't be so cruel and overemtional mate

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  48. its not the childish move as showed by great yankee media they done it because parking of indian embassy in d.c. was opened for public and usa didn't replied and acted on various protests and complained by indian ambassador in 6 months so its reciprocal action. and india have extended various privileges for americans unilaterally in india so they don't have much to complain. they have not came from moon so that you provide extra barricades security than other embassyes, give unilateral privileges in return what you get is your parking space made public,no replies to your complaints and humiliation of lady diplomats.

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  49. of course they will never do it again they provided extra security than other embassies, unilateral privileges, special ids,tex free import and several other things get away doing visa fraud and espionage.

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  50. I apologize if I came across as rude with my "white privilege" comments.

    You are right, there is something fishy about this entire drama. It appears like we will hear more about it in the coming days, unless there is a deliberate effort on a inter-governmental level to settle this.

    Although he may have reams of evidence, I still think Preet Bharara over-reached in this case. Reason being, this opens up a door, kind of precedent setting, where other governments, in the name of reciprocity, can genuinely take punitive measures against US consular officers in their countries. I don't mean like what India has done so far. Removing security barricades was childish though it really does not threaten security. Most Americans, still reeling from Benghazi, equate the two in their minds but the security in Delhi for the US embassy is leagues apart compared to Libya with or without those barricades.

    I applaud you for publishing dissenting opinions in your blog. This is, increasingly, a rare trait. Take madh-mama for example: same topic but almost everyone commenting there seems to be in magical agreement with her own views! How nice and how very convenient. Hat-tip to you for the lively discussion.

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  51. @Mary:

    What a poor example you had to pick in Dominique Strauss Khan!!! The charges were dismissed at the request of the prosecution which pointed out serious doubts in the accuser's credibility and inconclusive physical evidence

    Source:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Strauss-Kahn



    If that's an indicator of prosecutorial competence, I wonder what you would say if Preet Bharara, in the end, ends up with egg on his face.

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  52. Good point. She was arrested quietly and the world went on as usual for days before this made headlines.

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  53. I won't argue that the US media lies. However, it has been proven that in this specific case the Indian media lied and spread a lot of false truths early on in the case so how can you cling to thinking she was definitely cavity searched? If I'm not mistaken, that is one of the things the Indian media has already been busted for lying about. All media lies. That's why the conflict is happening. They've found a story they can make money off of.

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  54. You're probably right. I let the hype of this case get to me emotionally and I have no idea why.

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  55. It is common for any row involving embassy employees to be handled in this matter. The employees are moved to avoid any conflict with the host country. No one wants an investigation to occur in regards to embassy employees. It's not about right or wrong, it's about preventing media circuses like this one.

    No one could know all the laws of their country. I would bet money on the fact you don't know all the Indian laws either. I would also say you definitely don't know all the US laws. It would be impossible. Even top lawyers who make careers out of knowing the law don't know everything and the law changes almost daily so it would be impossible.

    This diplomat wasn't treated like shit. She was treated like any other person would have been. She was contacted months in advance, the embassy was notified. They didn't react to the case and left the US no choice, This is what is done with all government representatives. They've given warning and opportunity to respond, get lawyers, etc.

    I never said blackmail or green card scams don't exist. I know they do. Even if the maid was treated well, the pay is still a major issue and the way the events occurred match what our laws say is human trafficking. The only reason you adamantly believe the maid couldn't possibly have been victimized is because you grew up in a different culture and different law system than the US. That's the same reason that I believe she was victimized. This isn't something we would likely ever come to an agreement on and that doesn't make it wrong. The real issue is how this case is going to be resolved to the satisfaction of both countries and the US laws since the incident occurred on US soil and the Indian government chose not to deal with it before it became news.

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  56. You and I define special treatment much differently. Consider again she was in the US, she was not going to be treated under Indian social standards. In the US, our standards and procedures prevent unequal treatment. Do you know all the US laws and rules pertaining to the arrest of a government representative? Do you know the rules under the Geneva convention for such a procedure? I'm sure the answer is no. Your idea of special treatment seems to be that she should have never been arrested and if she was maybe she should have been picked up in a limo and driven back to her embassy and told not to leave. Maybe we should have taken her out to dinner rather than offering to bring her food? I don't know one single criminal that has ever been offered food. And cell phones are usually one of the first things confiscated. This diplomat was allowed to talk on her phone for hours in public before they drove her to complete the arrest procedure. Has India ever had their law enforcement sit with someone outside in a nice area while the arrestee made phone calls? Do you pay your police force to supervise personal and business phone calls of inmates? I would love for you to provide me even one example of a time Indian police waited 2 hours for someone to make phone calls on their persona cell before arresting them. I won't hold my breath while I wait, since I'm dead sure there is no example of this.

    Before you go and fuss at me for having a differing opinion than you do, you should read the reports from countries not involved about how they feel India mishandled this situation. Clearly, not just Americans feel this way.

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  57. It would serve you best not to throw out accusations on matters of US law you're not experienced with. I know it's easy to throw in some headline topics and expect them to sound impressive but it's not. You know very little of what is going on with our prison system, law enforcement, gun laws, etc. You only know what the Indian media has decided sounds like stories they can entice readers with. The topics you mention are very deep, complicated topics that even many Americans can't fully understand. Bottom line, there is something sinister and very unethical going on in the US now. Our government is up to no good in many ways. It's not something I could even begin to cover in this comment. This is why I never said the US is perfect.

    The virginity test you mention is conducted in India to this day. You do not want to me share my personal stories of some of the tests Indian women are subjected to there and that I had people tried to subject me to. While those things were in the Christian bible, America doesn't still engage in them the way India does.

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  58. Are you sure we didn't come from the moon? :P Just kidding.

    I don't agree with the privileges period. I don't care who you are (not you personally, I mean people in general), you're still a human and you're not better than the human standing next to you or the human mopping your floor or the human governing your country. I don't think it's okay to let supposedly important people have special rights that violate your country's laws just because they are socially important. That only breeds hatred between people and is counter-productive to achieving harmony among the human race.

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  59. I think there is going to be a deliberate effort to make this case disappear, at least from the news. I don't think we're going to get the truth when it's settled.

    It is possible that this diplomat was exposed to set a precedent. That's a common thing in American society.

    I know US security abroad is generally more heavy than other countries. But you have to consider that we are targeted more than most countries. We are seen as a prime target to too many nations for many reasons. Usually they're unwarranted so we do often feel like we need more protection.

    I like dissenting opinions honestly, as long as they're civil. I think this helps open up pathways for lively discussion. I truly believe in my heart that you (generally, not you specifically) do not have to agree with me to have an intelligent opinion. Life is so much better when we can share our views and learn from each other. :) I have a few long time readers that have disagreed with me many times and I still love to see their comments come through and I miss people when they're gone. Of course this drives my husband nuts because he's all for everyone agreeing quietly LOL.

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  60. keep it up kick some butts of white people ,iam with you haha ,proud to be an indian lol. i wonder sometimes if these woman's hate so much about india . why they they chose indian men,that shows there desperateness lol white man dont want them ,and they love to bitch abt and create drama ,which indian husband ignored most of the times ,and white husband dont take anyone's crap thats why those relationships never get along ,here in india they bitch and raise hell and no one make huge deal husband say carry on ,amazed how they criticized there husbands country ,this cant to be stopped bc having a we know everything attitude gonna be always there ,so all my fellow Indians and desi indians husbands get ready ,and sing with me ; mere desh ki dharti sona ugle ugle heere moti

    mere desh ki dharti ,la la la ala

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  61. again you didn't get it, i was defining the special treatment you wrote in your post not my definition of spl. treatment. i never wrote name of any soil and indian standard s. i am talking about respectable treatment of foreign diplomats accordance with vccr 1963 and severity of crime, if crime was bailable then its was not severe and you don't apply 4 grade us marshal procedure on less severe crime that is what i am saying and same is echoed by your gov. officials and state dep. and you are dragging whole argument in some kind of limo story. the problem with americans is that they are so proudly, loudly, arrogantly, confident. and they have to drag equality and freedom in ever argument. i am sure i know everything which i need to know and can be useful.
    again it wasn't usual case involving your average joe.
    you want ex. let me give you one the cia spy caught in india was very well treated and handed over back to usa.
    show me any news reports from non western country and it shouldn't involve news agency like ap, or reuters.

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  62. oh indian media busted lying! please provide me any media report or statement of official which says she wasn't cavity searched.otherwise i've to believe prima facie.
    at best you will hear is beurocratic cliches of standard procedure, normal routine and of course so called special treatment.

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  63. removing barricade is completely unrelated to this incident its parking dispute.

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  64. its pity that we'll never know the whole truth mea already started talking wishy washy things.
    but its true that under current regime us-india relations are at quite low level.they never been this low after nixon's madness.

    seems to me that most celebrated and overhyped obama is empty vessel.talk too much and have nothing to show on action in all matters.

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  65. above comment is not directed toward you in first place ,you are taking unnecessary offence.
    i don't use indian media for foreign issues info. i use local and international media.
    i never made generalization in above post i said i can also say those things but its not my intention. india have thousands types of people and believe me most have not heard of two finger test. and its not that we have invented this law its british colonial legacy of section 155(4) of indian evidence act 1872 and already scrapped by indian SC so its non issue.
    there is only one kind of bible that is christen bible.

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  66. I think you'll find this article particularly interesting since it reminds us all of how India just did the same thing to an Italian diplomat.

    http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-article-display-1.asp?xfile=data/opinion/2013/December/opinion_December39.xml&section=opinion

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  67. http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-devyani-khobragade-not-subjected-to-cavity-search-claim-us-marshals-1937895

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  68. There are tons of kinds of bibles actually. This is one of the things I take offense to in the Christian world. I know it's off topic here but there's a lot of different bibles here in the US. We have the Catholic bible, multiple protestant bibles, there's the Ethoiopian Orthodox bible, and more. Then in addition to that there are hundreds of different versions to those bibles, some old ones get edited every 50-100 years, new bibles are created. The wording in each is different. I understand your reference but there are many bibles in Christianity. Then we get to other religious sects in the US like Satan worship and you find the Luciferian Bible which is nothing like the Christian bible. It's crazy!

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  69. Is one thing to be proud of ones country and another to be blindly fanatical about it. And if you love India so much why don't you pack your things and go back since you seem to have such disdain for white people and this country.

    By the way and for the record, I was not born and raised in the US so even though I live in the US and I am a citizen, I don't consider myself to be American.

    I am Latin and married for 10 years to an Indian man from Gujarat. We married not out of desperation or because we could not find someone else. We fell in love and still in love and happy.

    Aren't you APPI's husband? If that is the case, I find your comments above highly disturbing.

    I'm sorry APPI and will understand if my comments are not published but his comments and attitude are ignorant and disturbing considering that he is your husband. It has nothing to do with him agreeing with your opinion or views but he shows no respect whatsoever with some of his comments and I quote:

    " i wonder sometimes if these woman's hate so much about india . why they
    they chose indian men,that shows there desperateness lol white man
    dont want them ,and they love to bitch abt and create drama ,which
    indian husband ignored most of the times ,and white husband dont take
    anyone's crap thats why those relationships never get along ,here in
    india they bitch and raise hell and no one make huge deal husband say
    carry on ,amazed how they criticized there husbands country"

    Had to read what he said twice because clearly he can't spell and his grammar makes no sense at times.

    Again, I understand if you don't publish my comments.

    Millie B

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  70. iam not appi hubby,and you are full of ur self like any other American ,as far grammar is concern i speak Hindi my first mother tongue .so screw ur grammar and language and u choose to read and reply ur comment ,ohh and u fell in love still in love with an Indian man !!!! conspiracy right there :-) ,iam not here to fight ,iam not gonna get in details ,in short u sound ignorant and stubborn ,who act like hey iam better than you type ,if India and there people is that bad ,then go and talk about USA ,millions of things wrong there ,15 year girl rape cple of days ago ,17 year kid died while he handcuff,talk abt those issues, because in US nobody gonna listen ur Crap ,so lets piss Indian people off talk abt how shitty indian men is or ,indian roads,streets,politics,woman's ,mother in laws , list is on , jesus ,.

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  71. This is what enrages us, why drag caste, culture and hinduism into it. You belittle an entire country for one individual's act, without getting hold of all the facts. It is throwback to the colonial hangover. It is like saying all Americans are promiscuous based on hollywood movies. When it is about India, blame in the entire country.

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  72. 5w_haul wrote & I quote-

    "us marshal don't arrest anyone for your kind info."

    YOU are presenting the wrong FACTS.

    From Wikipedia-

    "The US Marshals Service is part of the executive branch of government, & is the enforcement arm of the U.S. federal courts. The U.S. Marshals are the primary agency for fugitive operations. U.S. Marshals are also responsible for the protection of officers of the court, court buildings & the effective operation of the judiciary. The service also assists with court security, prisoner transport, & SERVES ARREST WARRANTS."

    See that there-
    "SERVES ARREST WARRANTS."

    "SERVES ARREST WARRANTS" means serves arrest warrants - get it?

    Once again you've proven APPI correct, Indians make their own selves look bad - they don't need any assistance from anyone else.

    "the bureau of diplomatic security (ds) which is a kind of police"

    Well they are a form of law enforcement - but they aren't 'police'. Policing has included an array of activities in different situations, but the predominant ones are concerned with the preservation of order.

    I think you need to learn to speak English a bit better before attempting to participate in an English speaking blog 5w_haul.

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  73. DaRonBurgundy-
    You missed the point entirely.
    DSK was forced to do the 'Perp Walk' even though he was only 'accused 'at that point & charges were later dismissed.
    The humiliation & damage to DSK was 'done' though, he resigned from his post at the International Monetary Fund & has given up all his former political aspiration since this incident. Haven't heard a 'peep' out of him since, except for more rape allegations in France.

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  74. oh yeah do you know foreign languages like Japanese or tamil don't lecture me world don't revolve around continent of north america as you people think.

    can you cite better credible source than Wikipedia because i already know fugitive and judicial functions of us marshals and as far my info. of a lawful arrest is concern its made by police. you can have 100 different name and call them law enforcement agencies. isn't maintaining law and order is what police do?.

    so first go and correct your info.

    beatrix quote -
    "Now it comes out she was arrested by US Marshals"
    this statement is made by which official?
    logic of convenience doesn't always serve well.

    you would be better served with certain quote of mark twain or george carlin i reckon.

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  75. don't worry mate adishanker taught us how to argue with people and grind them to dust and destroy them its called shastrarth.

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  76. link is faulty but i assume you are talking about marine case.2 marines killed two indians and allowed to go for Christmas leave and then for vote in Italy and italian ambassador filed a affidavit giving guarantee in court that they will return back for hearing but Italy gov refused to send them back so sc debarred him to leave country. so marines still lives in Italian embassy very nicely and once convicted will serve sentence in their home country. remember they are no foreign officials and accoused of double murder. but tried under ipc not sua act 2002 to prevent death penalty.

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  77. i know there are different versions but they more or less have to do with inclusion or exclusion of certain books.

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  78. Grr! As you can tell by the comments, the article was there. Anyway, here's another one. And yes, it's about the Marines but notice the double standard. India fiercely demanded they be tried in India then yet now India is trying to say the US has no jurisdiction over this case. If the host country should have jurisdiction, it should always be so and not whatever whim India decides they feel like promoting at the time.

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  79. Clearly not, the site is DNA India. That's not a US media site.

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  80. That's quite an agressive statement. Argue them to dust? As if the truth doesn't matter and you can't have a healthy debate? Your actions here don't show that as you've been civil and level headed. I would not have thought you were only concerned with the argument.

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  81. I am really saddened at the blatant racism in this comment. Not a single one of the commenters has said they hated India. What we have a problem with is when people of any nationality begin throwing insults. We are not accustomed to the typical Indian abusing that doesn't seem to bother most Indians. We find it extremely offensive. As spouses of Indians, most of us have a considerable amount of experience with the Indian population and if you don't like what we see then what are you doing to change it? If you don't want us to say Indians are over-reacting then why continue to become enraged over false news reports and then attack innocent people?

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  82. No one has mentioned Hinduism and this is predominantly a cultural issue. Clearly Indians find strip-searches offensive, unless you listen to the commenters on this blog post who have decided they're okay if it's done to a non-Indian for the purpose of retaliation and to the pleasure of Indian police forces. Quite a sickening double standard. And it's not just one Indian we are discussing. It's an over-whelming amount of them protesting, rioting, slandering, threatening, etc. There are a significant amount of daily news reports posted with comments routinely threatening Americans. And you wonder why we would openly rebuke this kind of sadistic, sickening behavior?

    You can get upset about stereotypes all you want but India is doing the same thing. Blaming the maid and filing reports against her is a stereotype of Indian culture- it's both victim blaming and trying to squelch the lower classes to shut them up. You can't blame all of that on the US when your own citizens are routinely engaging in it in the discussion of this one arrest.

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  83. What's sad is that I didn't marry my husband out of desperation either. I turned down several offers because he was the kindest and sweetest man I had ever met. He treated me with such care and love that I couldn't say no. I find the comment hurtful and sad indeed. I think it's reminiscent of how as pardesi's we're expected to sit down, shut up and glorify all things Indian regardless of how bad they may be. We're expected to blindly proclaim that India is the greatest, most perfect country in the world. The second we don't do that, we're attacked in the most hurtful way the Indian can imagine/find to hurt us- all without remorse. :(

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  84. No one here has ever said Indian men are shitty nor has anyone ever said here their MIL is shitty. I would appreciate if you would refrain from posting abusive comments and not start name-calling. It is not good for healthy discussion and doesn't resolve any problem.

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  85. This topic is getting really bad (having read some comments) why don't u close it.
    Yes, I think there have been some mistakes by her but they may also be due to her unawareness of USA laws, also the Indian culture would have played major role in it.

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  86. RK - I have to just laugh at how immature your response was. Fine, your mother tongue is not English; neither is mine. Mine is Spanish. But at least I assume that you can read. I clearly stated that I don't consider myself an American just because I live in the US and I am a citizen. I love the US but I am not blind to the fact that since I moved here 14 years ago, the country is in its worst shape I ever seen. Healthcare is a joke and super expensive, crime is high, a whole lot of countries hate our behinds and the economy is in the pits. I am not blind to that.

    And how been happily married for 10 years to an Indian is a conspiracy? Whatever dude!!!

    I am not going to get in a tit for tat with you here. I replied to your comment because I assumed you were APPI's husband and found your comments about white woman insensitive, offensive and hurtful.

    I came to that assumption from remembering a couple of comments from "Rohit Kumar" going crazy with APPI stating that she felt her husband's parents should have raised him less spoiled and more independent. Rohit Kumar identified himself as APPI husband at that time and went on and on about the way she was raised was not good, etc... Then in the following post said man posted that he liked that post better. I have a really good memory.

    So, in all fairness, I sincerely apologize to you if my assumption was wrong and you are not AAPI's husband but if you are, shame on you!!!!

    MillieB

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  87. I could not agree with you more :)

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  88. I did not miss the point. I highlighted the irony in her point - the fact that, based on the end result, DSK's prep-walk looked rather foolish in hindsight.

    Let me be clear: if found guilty in a court of law, Khobragade should serve her sentence.

    The issue I have is with the pre-trial treatment by LEOs (perp-walk, strip search etc), regardless of whether it is DSK or this woman. There is something voyeuristic about the entire thing that reflects poorly on the system. On top, given that ultimately all charges were withdrawn in the end (in the case of DSK), if you believe in the justice system, you would have to let go of your personal feelings about his guilt.

    DSK might well be a creep but his accuser was no angel. She was dirt poor but a liar and gold-digger as well. My point is that poverty, like in the case of DSK's accuser and in this case, Ms Richards, does not magically confer honesty and integrity if it was lacking in the first place.

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  89. The plot thickens!!!!
    Apparently Dr Khobragade has a history of not being truthful AND her husband is a US citizen-
    More skeletons tumble out of Devyani Khobragade’s cupboard

    Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/more-skeletons-tumble-out-of-devyani-khobragades-cupboard-1301929.html?utm_source=ref_article

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  90. 5w_haul-

    "oh yeah do you know foreign languages like Japanese or tamil"

    NMo, I know languages like Spanish, German, Dutch , Nepali, Kashmiri & English - which I speak FLUENTLY unlike you.

    Judging by your writing you can't speak English well so I doubt you UNDERSTAND English well.

    "so first go and correct your info."

    US Marshals serve arrest warrants, I've seen them do it right in front of me - very professional & in plainclothes I might add.
    Well, it has become obvious by the 3 Delhi news channels I have access that I can't use the Indian media for any RELIABLE information - whom do you suggest?

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  91. fcuk america. america is a country made by barbarians & slave masters

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  92. You both missed my point. DSK did the perp walk not because French kow tow to the US-hardly-but because France recognized that the allegations of sexual assault occurred on US soil and that as such US law would be followed. RonBurgundy, at the time charges against Strauss Khan were made, nobody knew anything about his accuser. That all came out later. Of course police/law enforcement have to follow through on any accusation of sexual assault, especially coming from a relatively poor black woman against a powerful white man. Charges against DSK were dismissed when it turned out she fabricated the whole thing. What would you have the police do? always dismiss a woman's allegations of sexual assault or rape? Such a male chauvinist Indian attitude. However, after DSK's arrest, it came out in the the French press that he'd been sexually harassing women for years, and many French women were very happy to see him get taken down a peg or two.Remember, most women's assailants walk free, the world over.

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  93. You really need to go back to school and learn some history regarding human evolution, specifically hominids, neanderthals and homo sapiens. When my 'ancestors were in caves eating meat' so were yours. And by the way, if you are a Hindi speaker you should know that European languages and Hindi share a common linguistic ancestor (PIE) which means we evolved from the same group of people. Anyway, that was then and this is now, and we are not living in the past. Perhaps you could direct your mental energies to more fruitful purposes.

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  94. My husband is not a puffed up fool about the reality of India, in the same way I am not a fool about the reality of the US. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a coward."

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  95. Ah, blame the Brits as always for India's social problems!! ha ha, what a joke. They left 70 years ago, and they only took advantage of a social system that was already in place. What part of India are you in? "two finger test" is alive and well in the NCR, UP, Haryana, Rajasthan.
    The Bible: first part, the Old Testament, is Hebrew/Jewish. The 2nd part, New Testament, is Christian. Some Christians only concern themselves with the new Testament. This information is readily available online. Please inform yourself before throwing out ignorant comments.

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  96. Well I'm not being "over emo" as you say, but what I've said perhaps seems the only way to treat them in the same kind

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  97. I won't be reading your long illogical rant, lady. If you would have been speaking this, your mouth would have been frothing with desperation and rage. LOL

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  98. Mary - it is you who missed my point. Taking personal affront to what I hoped to be a dispassionate discussion seems to be your forte along with a flair for flying off the handle with anti-Indian slurs at every imagined opportunity.

    "Charges against DSK were dismissed when it turned out she fabricated the whole thing. What would you have the police do?"



    You would not have asked that question had you taken the trouble to read my comment first. What would I rather have the police do in that circumstance? Make an arrest without the circus drama. And while we are at it, let's think about changing the laws so that just because everybody gets to enjoy custodial fingering, it's okay to do it. It is not okay. Works just fine in other civilized nations with their bunch of hardcore criminals, not sure why we have to stoop to such low undignified levels.


    Have you been following the story lately? It is getting interesting. Apparently, the prosecution made a serious mistake in reading the visa application submitted by Dr Khobargade for Ms Richards - the much publicized $4500 salary she supposedly promised to pay her was actually her own base salary instead. In other words, it strikes at the very foundation of the prosecution's argument.


    Lack of reading comprehension skills, apparently, is not just limited to you, Mary.

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  99. america is a illegal country built by babaric white people by genocide of native indian population

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  100. America Waged illegal war on iraq with its englsh speaking white ally & ur ugly media supported the illegal war by feeding false stories to the world never can any1 trust US media reports
    if u love ur usa so much y marry a guy outside of usa
    bitch u should divorce ur husband & send him back to india or a US prison
    & probably Marry a US marine or a marshal or John Cena

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  101. CNN (3/12/2014 10:19 PM ET): Charges against Indian diplomat who was strip searched dismissed.



    So much for Preet Bharara's credentials and track record.

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